SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I remember well that early evening. It was at twilight, February 4th, 1972, while the horizon’s pinkish hues were fading that I 1st kissed my wife. She was 6 days short of 18 years old, and I was 2 weeks into my 19th year. It was at that very moment, when my lips touched hers, that I handed her my heart and she placed it next to hers. In over 53 years, I have never asked for its return.

That is the magical part. One that can be too easily lost when the innocence is murdered. Some may question the veracity of that Valentine Month’s story I tell myself. And that is okay. But I do choose to remember it, as I want to remember it, for I have no need or desire to rewrite that precious moment. In fact, I would argue that it is essential to retell, whether real or fairytale, this adaptation of my story to myself. It is an important reminder of a sweet, buoyant moment frozen in my memory that assists me in not allowing the cruelty of Infidelity to drown all hope.

I know, I don’t need to tell anyone here that sexual betrayal is an adept killer of the mind, body, and soul. It possesses finely honed skills at finding tiny, insignificant fissures that exist in all relationships, good or bad. And then, when the time is just right, with malignant genius it ruptures even the strongest of foundations. That fracturing may be experienced on day 1 of D-day or it, like in my case, might quake the foundation decades later.

In the general population, I think a common belief is that only bad marriages have infidelity visitations. I’ll admit, I was one of those people. Some even believe that only bad people betray their spouses. I probably wouldn’t have thought that. I’m not saying people here believe this, for it appears to me that collective wisdom is that infidelity invades all forms of relationships. I’ve come to believe, as have many others, that no individual, couple or marriage is immune to the possibility of infidelity.

I don’t know why I’m sharing this ancient memory followed by disconnected, disjointed thoughts. Maybe I’m feeling nostalgically romantic or, more than likely, a little emotionally overwhelmed. Either way, I’m thankful for all of you sharing this moment in time with me.

Thanks to all of you, the story I will tell myself, years into the future, will be that my time spent with you guys was healing.

Asterisk

I don’t know why I’m sharing this ancient memory followed by disconnected, disjointed thoughts.

For me, venting equals healing -- or at least venting can lead to it.

Getting disjointed thoughts out on "paper" kind of gets any lingering bits out into the open.

...murdered... the cruelty of Infidelity to drown all hope... killer of the mind, body, and soul...

These are just from this post. The phrases you've used in other posts are equally... I don't know... extreme.

I understand where you're coming from because, you know, I've been there and done that. In all of my years here on SI, the one thing that never ceases to amaze me is just how hard the betrayal of infidelity hits people (including me).

But... "killer of the mind, body and soul?" Seriously? You're dead? Soulless?

This post starts off with a beautiful, romantic moment. One paragraph, Asterisk. One!

And then... the death of your mind, body, and soul.

Your wife chose an affair. There's no such thing as the "Infidelity Fairy," or demon, or whatever, who sniffs out vulnerability and sneaks in with "malicious genius."

She made conscious, deliberate choices during her affair.

She didn't murder you, didn't give you a lobotomy, or steal your soul. She broke. It happens. She's human.

And you don't know why, do you? And it's eating you alive.

Unhinged,

It is a little tricky informing a betrayed how they should or shouldn’t feel. Sorry I’ve disappointed you. I respect your opinions Unhinged and will be more careful in expressing how I felt while trying to make sense of my wife’s choices.

Asterisk

Oh, no! You don't get off that easily, sir. I never said anything about how you should or shouldn't feel. I have never, at least that I can recall, told a betrayed spouse how the should or shouldn't feel. It's got nothing to do with disappointment. I have no expectations here.

Just hope.

...trying to make sense of my wife’s choices.

That’s not your job; it's hers. It always has been, and always will be, because she's the only one who can.

She's never been able to explain her "whys" to you because she never tried to own and fix her shit.

Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me to fuck off, if that's how you really feel. But don't bullshit me and don't bullshit yourself. You're dying for an explanation. It's been driving you bonkers for... thirty years.

It's the one topic you try so hard to avoid that it totally betrays you.

Peace, brother.

Asterisk —

I think Unhinged speaks well enough for himself on his own behalf, I have learned to appreciate his direct approach and it helped me a great deal with one concept I wrestled with — it may or may not help your journey.

I posted a bit of vent or feeling sorry for myself by considering my wife’s choices to be an unneeded tragedy. If she and I had somehow been better at things, maybe the "tragedy" could have been averted.

Unhinged noted, that some people need to fall and fail themselves in order to learn.

In the end, I found myself to be collateral damage from her very specific choices, and that I was not living in a tragic, fractured fairy tale.

It was hard to read, but it helped me, and and helped me see my wife in a better light, based on what she learned when she failed her own standards. Of course, some people learn from poor choices, some don’t, but that’s a different thread.

You give your life narrative a lot of power, Asterisk.

Unhinged,

I tried to back off because I have no desire to get into a debate with you about how "I" express myself. But you would not allow me to withdraw. And honestly, I appreciate that you called me out on pulling away.

As expressed by Oldwounds you are direct. I’ve noticed this as well and as I said in my original response to you, which you did not acknowledge, I respect you and the things you say. However, if you have the right to be direct, so do I.

My friend, I will not allow you to cow me through directness. That said, I’ll be damned if I’m going to feel comfortable sharing my inner self when I now know there are vulture eyes sitting on high waiting to swoop down and pick at the carcass and bones of how I choose to express myself.

Try to see it from my perspective and let’s go over what I said and compare it to what you said I said.

That is the magical part. One that can be too easily lost when the innocence is murdered.

Your response was:

She didn't murder you, didn't give you a lobotomy, or steal your soul.

1st off, kind of felt insensitive at a moment I was exploring and sharing a very painful moment in my history. Be that as it may or may not be the case. There is not one thing in which I stated that said "she" murdered "me". What I did say is that she murdered my innocence, the innocence of our marriage, or maybe better said, my naivete of the marriage and woman I thought existed. And, my friend, I stand by what I said, that is how I felt. The feeling that the innocence that existed pre-D-day being permanently lost is not unusual. I’ve read this same feeling from others here many times. Some may not have used the word "murdered" often it is expressed with the word infidelity "killed" their pre- D-day innocence.

Okay, now lets look at something else you felt the need to correct me on.

I said:

I know, I don’t need to tell anyone here that sexual betrayal is an adept killer of the mind, body, and soul.

Your reply:

But... "killer of the mind, body and soul?" Seriously? You're dead? Soulless?

Okay, I stand corrected. I didn’t know that I had to be concerned that it would be taken that I was somehow a soulless ghoul, speaking from the grave. So, I’ll be more precise. Parts of my mind "felt like" it had died. Back then, my body ached "as if" it was being slowly tortured to death. And for my crushed soul, it, for a long time, "felt" dead.

I really wanted to avoid the above conversation, but you said you were not going to "let me get off so easily" And you were right to call my avoidance shit out. So, let’s move on to what you said in your second response to my post.

...trying to make sense of my wife’s choices.
That’s not your job; it's hers. It always has been, and always will be, because she's the only one who can.
She's never been able to explain her "whys" to you because she never tried to own and fix her shit.
Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me to fuck off, if that's how you really feel. But don't bullshit me and don't bullshit yourself. You're dying for an explanation. It's been driving you bonkers for... thirty years.

Now this, this is what I do need to hear. You are spot on that I have tried to make sense of my wife’s choices and have never been given an explanation that I could work through my mind and come out and say: "I understand now or I get it so it’s okay." And yes, that is exactly what I was tying to conclude. That, in my wife's case, infidelity was understandable. And you are correct that I am "dying for an explanation" that will never give me the okay that I seek and yes, it is driving me bonkers.

(Dying/Bonkers?)

Wait a minute here. I’ve not ended up in a ICU or phycological ward, so, like me, you use terms that are an over statement or that one could call out as bullshit if taken literally.

As to telling you that you are wrong. I’ll admit, in my opinion you were wrong, but only partially. And I did try to tell you that you were wrong, and you chose to double down on it. That said: to tell you to "fuck off"? No, I do not want you to ‘fuck off". I value your wisdom far too much and, though it may not feel like I always do, I give your words deep consideration. Especially the ones I don’t appreciate because my lack of appreciation may be because it is picking at something that needs exposed. So no, I don’t want to miss out in the future on what you think or believe but at the same time, I will call you out on what I see as you treating me "like shit" verses calling out "my shit", as I would hope you would do the same with me.

Asterisk

It is hard to separate yourself from the fact that you were cheated on.

But it wasn’t done to you intentionally (at least I hope not). It was done by a person who never considered the consequences or fallout.

If you have a good marriage and are happy, this one thought can just take over your whole day / night and ruin it.

I told myself for years he didn’t cheat because I wasn’t good enough. He cheated despite my being a good wife etc.

It’s not a personal attack. That’s how I stopped the crazy thoughts that kept setting me back.

Asterisk, I spent most of yesterday regretting the tone I took in the above posts. I know I can be very direct, which is sometimes a positive thing and other times... well, not so much.

I apologize if I've offended. I know the pain you felt. Been there and done that. It always reminds me of Christopher Guest in "Spinal Tap" talking about his new amp. "This one goes up to eleven."

What I see in your story isn't that much different than any other betrayed spouse who chose reconciliation, but with one big exception.

Most of us betrayed spouses want to know why our wayward spouses did whatever it was that they did. It doesn't seem to matter much whether they head straight to divorce or are willing to give their WS a second chance. It is a deep, primal need, far beyond mere curiosity.

I cannot recall a single BS who believed they'd successfully reconciled without understanding, as well as humanly possible, why their WS chose infidelity. Those "whys" will never justify it. We may never fully understand those "whys." And that's fine; there's a limit to that understanding because we haven't been there and done that.

"Why" is important.
"Why not" is critical.

It seems to me you and your wife skipped this essential step. You've gone through so much inner turmoil because of this. This seed of doubt has become a weed in an otherwise beautiful garden.

I honestly believe that resolving this issue will help you to let go of all of the rest of it, like a key opening a door to a whole new world.

I think you are a very deep feeling person, asterisk. Very passionate in your writing and probably deeply romantic at heart.

This is a blessing in so many ways and can also be a curse.

The reason I say that is because the narratives and words we assign to our stories can often evoke and capture emotions that we then become very attached to. And it can cause us to die a thousand deaths so to speak.

I have parts of me very similiar to you and one thing that helps me sometimes is not just learning to change the channel of my rumination, but also to revise the narrative to be more helpful to my heart and mind.

I am not saying infidelity is not abusive, torturous, deeply painful. But I think you are closer to peace when you are thinking about how you might be adding to your own suffering. I do not think you caused your own pain, nor do I think you deserved an ounce of it.

But 32 years later, there is some form of closure I think you need. Can your wife provide it to you? I suspect it does lie in needing to know the whys and understand that nothing you did, not one piece of who you were or weren’t likely would have changed anything. The issue was squarely on what your wife lacked in the likely suspects of things like integrity, emotional intelligence, self worth, ability to cope or the inability to provide self validation. Has she said? Does she know how you are struggling with this? Could you tell her and be embraced or would you be turned on your heels to deal with it alone?

I personally feel you have suffered enough, and hope you can find the keys to unlock yourself from this prison. It’s going to either invoice getting answers, getting a divorce (which I don’t think you seem to want) or choosing every day to change your narrative - as our thoughts do control our emotional state and we can control our thoughts. It may take some serious discussions so your wife can help illuminate it for reframing it.

I wish you nothing but peace and find your posts heartbreaking.

I have tried to make sense of my wife’s choices and have never been given an explanation that I could work through my mind and come out and say: "I understand now or I get it so it’s okay."

I can tell you what my W said about the process she followed to get into her A, but I don't understand how she made the particular choices she made. There were so many potential exit points, and she ignored every one of them and made the stupidest choice at every point.

In any case, the understanding I did achieve never made the A OK. If that's what I was looking for, I wasn't aware of it. And if I had been looking for a way to make the A OK, I did so because I thought we could stay together only if the A was somehow OK.

But As aren't OK, and nothing can make them so. R requires rebuilding even though one knows the A was not OK.

*****

Gottman and Silver argue, in 7 Habits... IIRC, that positive memories help keep people together. My memory is that one of the ways my rumination ended was positive memories popping into my thought process entirely unbidden. Often I was angry when they showed up, because they ended my rumination.

Later, when I realized my W was fully committed to R, I welcomed the positive memories. It's possible that you will benefit from consciously looking for positive memories. I found it difficult to stay in pain while remembering a good memory. YMMV.

*****

I’ll be damned if I’m going to feel comfortable sharing my inner self when I now know there are vulture eyes sitting on high waiting to swoop down and pick at the carcass and bones of how I choose to express myself.

Alas, each of us is responsible for expressing ourselves, and we need to accept that the receiver of a communication decides what it means. After all, the receiver can't know what you meant; receivers can only respond in their own ways.

Unhinged (and Asterisk),

I hope what I say is helpful to Asterisk and not a complete thread jump.

I quickly quit caring about "why."

I can imagine all the why’s. Validation, keep the attention coming, different sex, better sex, bigger dick, excitement, boredom?

I suppose "why" was one or more of those. I feel some of those myself.

But I don’t care about "why" she did it. I want to know how she could let herself do it.

I have some of those "why"s, but I haven’t cheated. I care too much about her (and myself).

I suppose pretty much every human being has some of those "why"s, but many don’t cheat.

So, not "why" did she do it, but "how" could she do it.

How could she care so little about me.

Best wishes.

Everything hikingout wrote.

So, not "why" did she do it, but "how" could she do it.

Yeah. This, too. All of it. "Joseph's Letter."